Steering Straight

Tires, shocks, sway bars, air bags... What crosswind?
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OnTheRoad
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Steering Straight

Post by OnTheRoad »

I went camping this weekend for the first time in my 1990 b-van and had a real problem with steering at highway speeds.

I did drive the van a few hundred miles before the camping trip -- mainly highway driving without noticing any steering problems. In preparation for this trip I put on new tires, installed 2" spacers in the rear, and had an alignment done.

The problem I'm having is that it is very hard to keep the van centered in the lane. The feeling when steering to stay centered is that the vehicle responds a fraction of a second *after* you turn the wheel. Since it feels like the the van isn't responding immediately it's hard to make little corrections to keep straight down the road.

i.e., you turn a little to the right to correct where the van is headed, and then a moment later the van is going *too* far to the right, so you have to correct a little to the left. Then it's going *too* far to the left.

Has anyone experienced this? Could it be related to a problem with the alignment I just had done?
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Post by skater »

It's probably play in the steering components somewhere - ask your shop to check them. In my case, they were able to adjust the steering box and tighten it up for me.

But keep in mind it's never going to track as well as a car, either. :)
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Post by Alaskan »

Has anyone experienced this? Could it be related to a problem with the alignment I just had done ?
Sure could...correct king-pin inclination and toe-in is very important to tracking

Lets determine what the factory spec's are and then determine what the shop has yours set at...

RJ...what are those spec's, ya know by chance ?
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Post by skater »

Actually, I do! This is from the 1991 Ford shop manual, page 04-00-3:

Camber: 0.0 +- 1.0 (degrees); max side-to-side difference is 0.7 degrees.

Caster: 4.7 to 5.7 (degrees - the second number is at the max vehicle weight); max side-to-side different is 1.0 degrees.

Toe: 1/32"; 5/32" to 3/32" out

Lean:
Front wheelhouse opening: 15mm (5/8 in)
Rear wheelhouse opening: 20mm (3/4 in)
Rear end of of pick-up box: 20mm (3/4 in)

Dogtrack: 0

Note - if caster is below specification, a caster wedge should be installed only if the vehicle exhibits poor steering returnability.

(Interesting note: Did you know our front treads are wider than the back by about 2.5"? Same manual, page 04-00-5.)
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Post by Alaskan »

Thanks RJ... !

While all 3 are important I'd be looking at the toe-out and the caster first.

Caster greatly contributes to a vehicle running straight down the road without the driver putting in much effort...it also makes the steering wheel return to center as you completed a turn.

Both can cause the vehicle to to act weird and act like its hunting

In his case, I suspect they only tampered with the toe as the caster requires a bending process due to the twin-I beam type front suspension not being particularly adjustable, I don't think.

I wasn't aware that there was a shim type adjustment for the camber, are you sure thats correct..?

Guess I need to roll under with my magnetic angle-gauge and eyeball the options... :lol:

Out here, some of the concrete highways are so badly worn that maximum caster won't keep ya from looking like a drunk going down the road...
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Post by OnTheRoad »

Thanks guys. I checked the Haynes Repair Manual for the Ford 1969-1991 Vans.

The values it gives are similar -- it gives an actual value rather than a range, but for toe-in it gives 0.125 inches. (other values are caster angle: 5 deg, and camber angle: 0.5 deg)

From what I've been reading having toe-in set helps the van track straight. I'm a little confused by the ford repair manual having different values, and having "toe-out", rather than "toe-in".
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Post by Alaskan »

Pretty sure its tow-in rather than tow out.....your data there shows 1/8 inch tow-in.

Tow out will make it act very weird, spooky...if thats what they did its no wonder it handles different

RJ....?
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Post by skater »

I just typed what the manual had. :)

Keep in mind those values are for when it's a shell. When it's fully loaded, it'll change. Unfortunately it doesn't give values for what it should be at "dry weight" - i.e., built as a camper but with no human or water in it.
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Post by OnTheRoad »

The shop checked the alignment and it's apparently within the specs.

The mechanic there told me he is sure the problem is with the gear box, and that I should replace it. It was replaced by a previous owner, but I don't know how long ago.

I'll post an update after I get it replaced. He also mentioned that other parts of the front suspension were worn (bushings, ? king pins), but felt strongly the issue was the gear box, and told me he had a similar problem in the past.
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Post by Alaskan »

How many miles does your rig have...?

I'd be real surprised if your rig needs a second new steering gear.

Most all steering boxes have an adjustment on them to adjust out the back-lash....that needs to be looked at before a costly new steering gear

I'd be getting a second opinion at the local Ford store.....gotta watch these mechanics now days, they are all looking for their next victim
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Post by OnTheRoad »

I did ask them if there was an adjustment that could be made to the steering box and was told they don't do that and just replace the box.

When I bought the van in December I had it checked by a trustworthy mechanic. He's the one who first told me the steering box had been previously replaced. The van only has 50,000 miles on it.

The mechanic who checked it for me when I bought it did a small adjustment on the pittman shaft/arm. Is that the same adjustment for the steering box? Or is there something else to adjust?

The scary thing is that I came very close to getting into an accident with the way the steering is behaving. I have read about adjustments to the steering box being made if the steering is loose -- i.e, you have to turn the wheel farther than normal to get the vehicle to turn. I'm not having that problem. The problem I'm having is oversteering, and what feels like a delayed response, but the wheel does respond to even a small turn of the steering wheel.

I'm not going to have the work done by these guys -- I had just gone to this shop for the alignment, and they installed the spacers... I have another place in mind for the replacement that has pretty good reviews. I'll see what they have to say.
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Post by skater »

Yeah, a van with 50K miles shouldn't need its second steering box, I wouldn't think. They should last practically forever; two on a vehicle seems unlikely. My van has 120K miles and the shop just adjusted it (for $50 or something, too), and it is much better - but my problem was sloppiness rather than tightness.
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Post by Alaskan »

I would not trust any shops now days, unless you are well acquainted with them, especially when you drive up in a motor home...

A friend just recently went to the local Ford shop as her water temp gauge wasn't working (B190)....Ford wanted to replace the entire instrument panel, parts and labor $650, such a deal....she gotta outta there ASAP

She instead had a shop install a mechanical Stewart-Warner gauge (about a 90 dollar item at any auto part store)......parts & labor $465...can't possibly take more than a couple hours or less to do that.....here she didn't ask for an estimate, unfortunately

A major rip-off...

My guess is they'd want a grand to install a new steering box..

Watch out folks...these shops are all looking for today's victim....

Get firm prices and check around to make sure they aren't getting to you

You can always stop in at your local NAPA store and ask the owner to recommend more than one of his trustworthy legitimate shop customers to do your work...then get firm prices from each of them...be sure to tell them you are getting prices and that the NAPA store provided shop names...helps keep them honest
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Post by skater »

Scary. I actually do have a shop here that I trust completely - if they say something's wrong, I believe them. Several times I've gone in there thinking something major was wrong, and they discovered it was something else, always cheaper. It goes both ways, too - on several occasions, I've gone in there and they didn't have my bill ready, so they said, "Here are the keys, just stop by later and pay the bill."

And they know that my fiancee and I have a total of four vehicles, so it'd be stupid for them to scare me away and lose all of that business.
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Post by OnTheRoad »

I'm still searching for a good local mechanic...

The quote I was given from the alignment shop for a new steering box was $468, so not quite that expensive.

When I came home I checked rockauto.com, and they have the steering box (gear box) for sale for $208.98 shipped, $60 of which is a core charge.

I called two other shops, and they each quoted 2 hours labor for the install if I provide the part, one at $90/hour and the other at $79/hour.

So, at the cheaper shop the total would be about $370, and about $40 off that getting credit for the old steering box ($60 core credit less shipping costs), so around $330 net cost.

I may have jumped the gun ordering the steering box right away, but was really concerned after coming back from the mechanic and my experience driving on the trip. If they tell me it's another issue, I can ship the part back to rockauto and just lose out on the shipping costs. Of course, my concern is that I replace this and end up not fixing the problem. The alignment shop was saying to start with the steering box, and if that didn't fix it to move on to replacing the bushings and king pins, etc.
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