B190 Enthusiasts

Hello all,

We are on the road for an east coast run. Arrive in NC today. I have been experiencing transmission shudder for the last 1000 miles - mostly at low speed with little load on the transmission. It occurs most often around the 1st to 2nd gear shift. When I back off, and hit it harder, the convertor locks up okay. I added a tube of Dr. Tranny Shudder Fix yesterday, which helped a bit.This is a 1993 with 115,000 miles on it.

Any ideas on "miles to failure". I'd like to drive back to Santa Fe to familiar mechanics. I read good things about the Jasper transmissions.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks.

It's all variable. In my case it overheated and blew out all of its fluid, so I would recommend babying it as much as possible - go easy on the hills, lock out the overdrive when climbing, etc.

I had good luck with my Jasper, but I've read lately their quality hasn't been as good. If I understand correctly, they now "farm out" some of the less common rebuilds to other companies. I think an E4OD is a more common transmission and therefore probably still done by Jasper... I'd try to find a good transmission shop at home and get their recommendation.

I have experienced the same thing on my '91 pickup. It was the torque converter. It's been several years ago, but as I recall, the hub was riveted to the front plate and that is where it failed. The transmission shop overhauled the converter replacing the front plate with a much thicker one, and welded the hub to it. I have over a 100K on it since then with no problems. Personally, I would be looking for a nationwide transmission shop, ASAP.

I've been very happy with the Jasper transmission we put in our van. And, if you can make it back to Denver on your way home, I recommend Cliff's, a specialty transmission mechanic in Commerce City.

We had lots of warning (maybe 5000 miles) of impending failure before the original transmission finally died. Nerve-wracking! One strategy that seemed to extend the life of the old one was to flush and replace with high-quality synthetic fluid. Maybe you can do that in NC before heading home. Also added a cooler, but that was swapped out when the Jasper went in for a much larger one. Good luck! That original unit can quit at any time and leave you stranded, as I'm sure you know.

Reddeer
I think there are some good shops all around the country. I blew mine on I75 on the way to FL 2 years ago. Was able to limp to Valdosta, GA and lucked out with this shop:

http://www.lowndescountytransmissions.com/

I would think if they are a ATRA member they would be okay. Needed new torque converter and they recommended a billet one over stock as felt stock was too weak for B190 weight. Best to do this on your terms rather than when it decides to go. We rented a car for several days and stayed at a local pet friendly motel. I would highly recommend the above shop, if you could make it there. You could take I-10 back to Las Cruces and up. Need to call whatever shop ahead so they can have potential parts needed available and can fit you in there schedule. Might be able to do it in a day that way. If you go to the nearest ATRA shop and let them test drive it they will have a good idea what the problem is. My repair cost $1000 - complete trans rebuild and new torque converter.

Good luck - Phil

Thanks to all for the advice! Taking it nice and easy.

Postscript #1:

Made it back to Santa Fe. Added one more tube of Dr. Tranny and took it easy.
More notes after a rebuild. Thanks again.

Postscript #2

I had both universal joints replaced, which were toast. The mechanic says the trans is okay, but I will drive it a while to test that theory.

I am a transmission builder with about 200+ E4OD/4R100 under my belt. Mostly from bus fleets (E350/450s) with diesel motors. I also recently re-rebuilt the unit in my B because the previous owner had it done but was failing with only 40K on it. If the transmission is actually the original virgin, failure with that mileage from multiple things can happen at any time. The shutter is because the converter clutch is glazed (Burnt hard surface) The clutch should apply smooth until full lock but vibrates causing what we describe as shutter. The shutter fix you put in is just masking the problem because it changed the friction coefficient of the fluid allowing a smooth application. Basically it needs a converter. A billet one is best but not necessary. Dacco and Recon are the ones I use. Now for the most common complaint! Front seal failure! There are three things that cause the phenomenon. The seal Ford used was silicone based in hopes it wouldn't harden from heat. Unfortunately they actually would wear out and when the unit reached critical temp it would just belch out a gallon or so of fluid which leave you on the side of the road scratching your head. In this case, you could add fluid after it cools and by magic no more leak. You still need to replace the seal and bushing ASAP. Now if the seal isn't worn enough to belch out the fluid at extreme temps, and the bushing is worn more then the drain back can handle, it will just BLOW the front seal off the pump. And if the pump is worn it will also push excessive oil past the gears and bushing blowing out the seal. In these cases a tow truck will be needed. Now for the internal problems. Ford originally used a little pilot bushing in the output shaft to support the pilot of the center shaft from the OD section. Unfortunately it was a bad design and in high mileage heavy vehicles it was causing massive bushing wear with the end results being possible mechanical failure. Now when the unit is rebuilt, being a 1994 or older, it should get a higher volume F5 pump, OD roller clutch instead of the high failure sprag, 4 pinion steel OD planet, Ford center support kit that incorporates a ball bearing. I use the ford kit over the aftermarket ones. Even a used kit is ok, just change the bearing. Steel 4 pinion forward planet with thrust bearing and 2nd desine ring gear hub, Hardened sun gear shell, and the updated low roller and hub kit. And I always put in a new solenoid pack and updated coast band servo. A COMPLEAT bushing kit should be installed. The aftermarket (Chinese) stator and OD sun gear bushings should not be used. They are not manufactured properly. If your builder is competent (not many are) and builds it as described, the unit should go 150-200K miles. The transmission DOES NOT NEED A SHIFT KIT! The units only fails mechanically, not because they burn out. On the Jasper and other reman companies, The transmissions ARE NOT REMANUFACTURED! 50% or more of the part I replace in a transmission when building, the reman companies deem reusable. So what you are buying is a glorified repair with a paint job! The average mileage of a unit I have to Re-rebuild from the reman companies is 35K. Unfortunately a 3 year 100K mile warranty isn't any good because it is over 36 Month old! Jasper Does have one of the best labor warranty's if you have a failure during the warranty period. I am open to remanufacturing units for people if shipping and down time is not a issue.

Dave

Great to have a tranny expert on the site. Thanks for the professional info


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Thanks Dave for all the intel!!!

This may be a little late to be useful, and may be completely off the mark, but for what it's worth:
Are you absolutely certain the problem is in the tranny? Recently had a bad shudder problem in my '99 with about 20K miles since a new engine was installed. Happened anytime I accelerated or was on the slightest upgrade. My go-to tech diagnosed and repaired in a day. Installed full set (10) of new plugs and replaced 3 ignition coils. It runs strong and smooth now with no trace of the shudder.

You are not too far off the mark. A cylinder missfire can feel and is sometimes mistaken for converter shutter. The converter clutch was changed from 3/4 inch wide to 7/8 before the triton V10 replaced the 460. And all converters rebuilt after 95 had the new clutch. Unless you had a strange hydrolic problem converter shutter became "almost" non-existent. When a 460 would miss, it affected all the cylinders because of the single coil and distributer setup. On the triton motors that use multiple coils can miss on the same one or two cylinders under a load with lockup on mimicking converter shutter. The other thing to take into consideration is that 1/2 of the 95 and all 96 and newer vehicles used OBD2 Diagnostics. That would enable the technician to scan the vehicle and find cylinder misfires stored in the computer for easier diagnosis.