Adding Propane Capacity

It's a gas
Marko Polo
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Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Heya -

I'm new to the B190, but am planning on a lot of boondocking and cold-weather camping. Does anyone have suggestions for increasing propane capacity? Or can someone help with the questions below:

Would it be possible to mount a single (or two?) 30 lb. propane tank on a cargo carrier on the back, then building detachable hosing to connect it from where the stock tank is mounted? What if a Y were installed with in-line valves to select which tank feeds the vehicle?

The plan is to shut off and disconnect the tail-mounted tanks when travelling and connect at campsites. My expertise is more in carpentry, masonry, and engines, so if someone with more knowledge of gas can help it would be appreciated.

Thank you!
EricZ
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by EricZ »

As a start, here are my incomplete notes on some devices that might get you part way there:

Extend-a-Stay (by Marshall Brass, possibly no longer available)
Allows running internal appliances from external tanks and external appliances from coach tank.
If I recall correctly, Standard included the fitting and a hose for an external tank; Deluxe had the same fitting and hose, but added a hose for external appliances.

Extend-a-Flow:
I think this is for RVs with luggable tanks (i.e., typical of trailers). Not what we would use in our Airstream 190s.

Stay-a-While (Mr. Heater)
Looks like this might be similar to the Extend-a-Stay.
Looks like three models: Tee-only, Tee and hose, and Tee with two hoses (Deluxe).

Sturgi-Stay (MB Sturgis)
Perhaps another variant of the same idea.
Standard, Deluxe

I have not yet verified that any of these devices will fit in the limited space near our Airstream 190 propane tanks. If there isn't room, perhaps the device can be located elsewhere (with suitable propane plumbing).

Once you had one of these devices installed you should be able to plumb a line to near the rear bumper, where you could then connect your external tanks; or perhaps you could simply run a long flexible hose on the ground.

Though I've considered installing one of these devices on my 1993 Airstream 190 (thus my notes), I haven't worked through the details. I'll be interested in hearing what you discover.
Marko Polo
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Thanks Eric - those look great. I'm thinking a long flexible line will be easier than plumbing a line, and if it's only going to be used at campsites it will be alright to connect/disconnect every new campsite. Which brings the next question...

Will propane have enough pressure to flow through a roughly 12' foot line to the back of the truck? Will it function in cold weather? I can add hooks to hang it up in the underbody off the ground/snow.

Good luck with your swap-out - let me know which you go with. Anyone else done this?
Reddeer
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Reddeer »

Hi Marko,

We've been using an Extend-A-Stay with a 5 gallon tank. This would NOT be adequate for cold weather camping or living in the van. Also, after installing and running the EAS, you will not get a meter reading on how much propane you have, as you are pulling gas from the external tank, not the house tank. This is something else you will want to consider - how to measure your other tanks. As other posts state, the house tank can be difficult to fill, so we try not to drain it. Best of luck. Also, a couple of sites I like are
http://cheaprvliving.com/ and http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/. Lots of good content.
Marko Polo
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Good to know about the meter reading. If a 5 gallon won't be adequate, maybe something like this will: http://www.propanetankstore.com/shop/10 ... out-gauge/. The tailgate cargo carrier offers practically unlimited vertical space, albeit a maximum weight of 500 lbs. Fully loaded, a tank like the one above is roughly gross weight 170 lbs. It would look a little bit like the Clampetts...
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skater
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by skater »

I'm just trying to figure out how you're going to hold it back there. Bungee straps would seem...inadequate.

How long are you planning to go? I was able to go a couple days in weather that was around or below freezing at night and above freezing during the day. Colder weather means more propane, of course. Also, if you're really going to be boondocking, you'll need to recharge your battery, too - the furnace fan will likely kill it within a day or so.

The propane situation is the thing that bothered me the most about the motorhome design: a trailer has easily-removed tanks for refilling, or even swapping if you get a couple spares. I actually enjoy getting propane now. I don't know why motorhomes weren't designed with that type of setup in mind.
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
1995 Airstream Excella 30' trailer

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Marko Polo
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Bungee straps would seem...inadequate.
Haha. I can just imagine a 170 lb. propane tank with bungee straps holding it. It'd be like those insurance commercials about vehicles NOT to follow. :lol: I'll use chains with a lock to secure it (both for security and safety purposes), weld a mounting bracket with ratchet straps (like an appliance dolly), and it will be mounted next to a 6 ft. steel locker which can help with stability. The idea is the only time it will be removed is when refilling or accessing the spare tire. So rare circumstances. It's not illegal to be carrying a propane tank of that size on a vehicle, is it?

The trip will be almost four months. The freezing-weather, mountainous region portion will be about 6-8 weeks. I will be moving camp 3-4 times in that period, so the longest it would be without a refill is roughly 2 weeks. I'll also be in a friends driveway for most of it, so if something goes disastrously wrong the indoors is available.
you'll need to recharge your battery, too - the furnace fan will likely kill it within a day or so.
This can be done daily by the generator or by running the engine I assume? If the coach battery does die, will running the generator (assuming it is started by the engine battery) charge it? Also, if above-mentioned friend doesn't mind, I may coincidentally have a 100' 15 amp extension cord with me...

All tanks will be winterized, except the commode which will have purple slurp (or vodka or whatever) in it to prevent freezing. Does anyone have experience with propane regulators freezing?
Marko Polo
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Disregard the last post. I overlooked the fact that mounting a propane tank on the rear of a vehicle would be terrifying should a rear-end accident occur. So it's back to the drawing board for increasing propane capacity.
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skater
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by skater »

Marko Polo wrote:Disregard the last post. I overlooked the fact that mounting a propane tank on the rear of a vehicle would be terrifying should a rear-end accident occur. So it's back to the drawing board for increasing propane capacity.
I thought about that, but decided it's probably not THAT big of a deal - those tanks are pretty strong. Ever see a Mythbusters episode where they try to destroy one? They really have to work at it. I've heard of them falling off trailers while on the road and such with nothing more than scratches.

Heck, if you clearly label it propane, I bet people would be more inclined to be careful about NOT rear-ending you. ;)

I think your best bet, though, is to look around underneath for more potential hiding spots for another tank. For example, on my '91, the propane tank was under the generator, but the spot under the side door was mostly empty. You may also be able to squeeze in a larger tank in the original spot (not much larger, probably). If you really want to go extreme, you could get a smaller gas tank and mount a propane tank in the space you save - of course, this has an obvious downside.

The more I think about this, the more I realize that two weeks without a refill in cold weather is going to be difficult. We have two 30lb tanks on our trailer, and I expect to refill each one after 2 or 3 days of usage. Heck, this last weekend, it was around freezing at night and into the high 40s Saturday, and we still burned about 2/3rds of one tank (this includes cooking and hot water, but that doesn't use much - it's the furnace that uses most of it). Granted our trailer is much larger than a B190, but that should give you an idea of what you're up against. Part of me kind of wants to switch to 40 lb tanks because we do it so often, in the hopes I'd get another day or so out of it.

Another time I was heating our trailer to the minimum level - 50 or 55 degrees - while we had it at home between trips in the winter. Temperatures were mostly around freezing at night, warmer during the day, but we did have a cold snap for a day or two into the teens. In two weeks I think I used about three 30lb tanks of propane just to keep the camper at 50 or 55 degrees (I subtracted one tank because it was low when I started). In that situation, we closed the bedroom door, put the covers over the skylights, closed all of the curtains, etc. to help insulate the camper.

I don't have good experience with the propane usage on the B190 to tell you what I got out of it, in part because the furnace never quite worked correctly in it. But you could easily find out - fill the tank, then just heat the camper in the weather you'll be dealing with, and see how long it takes to empty the tank. If you get, say, 3 days, then you know you need a minimum of 4.7 times that (which would be something like 100 lbs of propane if the original tank is about the same size as a 20lb cylinder, which I think it is), but don't forget to add for hot water, oven, stove, and adding some more for colder weather. I suspect you're going to need at least two 30 lb tanks, maybe even a 100 lb tank to do it, though.
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
1995 Airstream Excella 30' trailer

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Marko Polo
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by Marko Polo »

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

It sounds like an extra tank is going to be necessary, unless I want to get the thing filled every three days. In regards to transporting propane on a cargo carrier, I wonder if it's legal in all states.

Driving tomorrow to pick the thing up. So stoked.
URStruly
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by URStruly »

Adding propane capacity consider the fact that the B190 in '91 has the tank on the drivers side below the generator. Later models has the tank on the passenger side. Get another B190 tank and mount it the curb side. Then add insulation to the cabin at the windows and the doors to make the heating system more efficient. The tank will give you 100% more capacity and a good insulation should give you 20% to 30%. So you could extend your time to 7 or 8 days. Heat hot water only when you need it. Using a Mr Buddy heater hooked to you coach propane system will stop the power drain of the furnace as it does not have a fan.URStruly.
VanDownByTheRiver
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by VanDownByTheRiver »

I regularly went over 10 days this winter (full-time) in freezing Virginia temperatures with no modifications other than a heavy U-shaped floor-to-bed level curtain starting behind the couch, passing just behind the front seats, and ending between the side doors and counter.

I rarely use the water heater (shower at gym), leave the fridge running on propane 24/7, and averaged around 58 on the thermostat overnight. I turned it off completely before going to work for 32+degree days. I never winterized, always had water, and survived overnight temperatures down to about 14 degrees without freezing damage. For nights in the twenty-degree area, I jacked the thermostat to the 64-70 range. If that's a regular night and you're heating during the day, you might only make it 3-5 days.
'94 B190 w/ 460
why3zx
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by why3zx »

Has anyone sucessfully installed any of the expansion kits in one of our vans?

This sure seems to be the one that has good reviews for a good price.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014J ... PDKIKX0DER

I really want to ability to be able to keep the van parked at hunting camp for a month and be able to just fill propane cylinders when we run to town.
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skater
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by skater »

why3zx wrote:Has anyone sucessfully installed any of the expansion kits in one of our vans?

This sure seems to be the one that has good reviews for a good price.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014J ... PDKIKX0DER

I really want to ability to be able to keep the van parked at hunting camp for a month and be able to just fill propane cylinders when we run to town.
I bet it would work. It'd require some replumbing of the propane lines by the tank, so make sure there's room for it. Nice find.
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
1995 Airstream Excella 30' trailer

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lido14co
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Re: Adding Propane Capacity

Post by lido14co »

Here's a link showing how to install an extend-a-stay. Looks similar to the Camco 59123. www.youtube.com/watch?v=er_cFg1MRk0


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