Winter camping

New to camping and have questions? Wondering what the switch in the control panel does? Post your questions here and we'll (try) to answer them.
TheSeeker
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Winter camping

Post by TheSeeker »

I can partially answer my own question now. Went down to a common home satellite dealer in a nearby town and they said there'd be no problem with installation. I asked a couple times to make sure as I had expected to have to go to a Winegard dealer. I'll get a photo and any info when all's done. This dish folds right down at the push of a button. It was delivered in an immensely huge box, but the dish itself from looks fairly small by comparison to some others and is just 45 lbs. Ordered the accessory plate too, to help secure.

As we'll be living in our future b190 full time, not just sightseeing, but parking for periods of time mainly during the Canadian winter, it'll be welcome to have some other entertainment in the van. (I'll be sewing slip covers and making a few decor changes too, etc., in there, after doing all the winterizing).

Still, it'd be nice to hear how it's worked for any others? I'm quite aware I'll be having to climb up and clean snow off, but I'm not that heavy at 110 lbs. Where though, are the strongest points on the roof to stand or kneel if any?
Appreciate any info! Anything else to beware of? Thanks ! :)
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skater
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by skater »

Wow, wintering over in a B190. I would recommend looking for all of the air leaks and plugging them with insulation. This would include (on my '91 - yours might be different) the power cord inlet, the door handles, etc. Keep in mind you're basically in an old car, and they aren't sealed super well, so be ready to add insulation to those spots that are leaking.

Ours survived Snowmaggedon (as DC calls it) - ~24" of snow over a few days - without a problem. I think those tops are pretty strong. I cleaned up an earlier ~12" snowfall only because we were taking on a trip a few days later, but I didn't do anything about the larger storm's snow. Of course it all depends on how wet the snow is, but in any case your 110 lbs was likely concentrated in a few spots, while the snow will be spread evenly across the roof. There's nowhere specifically you should stand or not stand - it's not like a trailer with the ribs; it's one piece of fiberglass. Of course, you'll want to be careful not to step/climb on things like the bathroom fan.
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
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Mgittrich
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by Mgittrich »

You might cut some 2' X 2' squares out of 1/2" plywood and use them to distribute your weight across the roof top. I've never been up on top, not fond of heights, but I have had some RV techs up there to replace vents and add solar panels and haven't had any roof damage so far. You might call a local RV repair shop to see what they would do.

Good luck.
Mike
TheSeeker
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by TheSeeker »

Hey, thanks Skater and Mike - there's quite a learning curve and it means a lot to hear others' experiences and tips.
Love this site!

I'll insulate all the places Skater said, go around with a candle to see if any more draughts want to get in, and look into getting a backup propane heater. I think the "Little Buddy" brand has good reviews. Already got sleeping bags rated -35!

Mike, the boards are an excellent idea! I'll cut a couple holes in the ply to tie rope handles that could help to grab them when moving them around.
Another thing I overlooked is that the ladder reaches only to the bottom of the fiberglass, so I expect to be looking into installing another grab bar or two to hoist myself all the way up.

Not certain where home will be this winter, but the winters around Osoyoos are really quite mild, so will probably make my way there soon enough.

It'd be nice to add some solar too eventually, so I hope that'll be feasible with all the things already sticking out of the roof.

Thx!
Susan
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skater
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by skater »

Are you planning to use the water system? I'd worry about the tanks freezing, depending how low the temperatures get. They're out and exposed to air. Maybe some of those electric tank heaters would help. If you are planning to use the water system, I'd just fill (and refill as necessary) the fresh water tank and use water out of that instead of trying to keep a hose attached.

We used ours in temperatures down as low as 17F/-8C overnight without a problem, but it was also getting warmer than that during the day. What kinds of temperatures are you going to be dealing with?
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
1995 Airstream Excella 30' trailer

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TheSeeker
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by TheSeeker »

Osoyoos winter temperatures are usually around the freezing mark. (Was invited too, to stay by somebody in Keromeos, which isn't far from Osoyoos - average winter temps 1-7 degrees C or I think about 34-45 F).

I was concerned about the water and water hose. Thanks. Thought of keeping the water hose coiled, wrapping in an insulated blanket/envelope when not using it, along with seeing an RV dealer for tips. Having heaters put in the fresh water tank is a great idea. Thank you. I was thinking of wrapping the tanks the best I can with an insulated blanket - the type that looks like foil on the outside and cuts easily to size. Does that sound feasible? Thx!
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skater
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by skater »

TheSeeker wrote:Osoyoos winter temperatures are usually around the freezing mark. (Was invited too, to stay by somebody in Keromeos, which isn't far from Osoyoos - average winter temps 1-7 degrees C or I think about 34-45 F).

I was concerned about the water and water hose. Thanks. Thought of keeping the water hose coiled, wrapping in an insulated blanket/envelope when not using it, along with seeing an RV dealer for tips. Having heaters put in the fresh water tank is a great idea. Thank you. I was thinking of wrapping the tanks the best I can with an insulated blanket - the type that looks like foil on the outside and cuts easily to size. Does that sound feasible? Thx!
It's probably feasible to wrap the tanks, but I don't know how much good it'll do. The foil insulation I'm thinking of doesn't have much in the way of R value. Maybe you meant the foil-backed foam insulation - that's probably somewhat better.

These (or similar - there are other brands) are the tank heaters I was thinking of. They actually mount on the outside of the tank, on the bottom. I'd also consider a heat tape for the pipes to the dump valves and around the dump valves themselves - I had one valve freeze on me one time (wouldn't open), and that's not a situation I'd recommend having. We eventually got it open, but it was a bit scary for a few minutes.

For the hose, when we camp in winter, I fill the tank, then drain the hose and store it again.

One other thing - you're going to go through a lot of propane. Expect to need to refill the onboard tank every two or three days.
1991 Airstream B190 - bought, 2005; sold, 2011; bought 2017
1995 Airstream Excella 30' trailer

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TheSeeker
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by TheSeeker »

Wow thanks again Skater for the help! I'll look for better insulation to wrap the tanks and get some double-sided tape (carpet tape) to help secure.
Thanks for the heater link too! I was imagining some kind of heat coil that drops into the tank. Will look for some heat tape for the pipes and dump valve as well: that Ultraheat site looks great! Thx again!
How did you get the dump valve open - perhaps a torch or a pipe wrench? (Should maybe start a thread, "What tools do carry with you?).

Yes, it'll be much better to drain the water hose. Not exactly sure how to do that - I suppose just unhook it from the source and hold it up in various places for the water to run out, and keep a big bucket handy so I don't create a little skating rink around it.

For the propane, I'd probably go into town shopping every couple days, (and if in Osoyoos, cross-border shopping). But are the propane tanks removable as are those on a trailer? It might then be prudent to keep a couple extra tanks nearby.

This might be sounding like a long ways to go. But having had experienced over 2 years homeless on the Vancouver streets before going into back to school and into teaching, I'm determined - a b190 will feel like a palace by comparison! Can no longer keep the house up and sold it, and practically everything in it.
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weekender
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by weekender »

The propane tank on the B190 is fixed and cannot be removed. Some members have had success adding an "Extend a day kit" which allows you to connect to a common 20lb container. A suggestion for the hose and filling up the tank throughout the winter would be to get or make the shortest one possible -- dealing with a hose in the cold of winter-- no fun! If you will remain stationary for any length of time, I would also recommend bales of hay around the van (be sure not to block the heater exhaust, hot water tank exhaust or the van exhaust!) to help with wind cooling of the underside of the van. The hay will also attract mice and other critters, so poisons or traps should be factored in as well. Others members have also expressed hanging a heavy blanket or sleeping bag from the bed to the floor (blocking off the cab area) helps a lot, as there is a lot of heat loss from the doors, windshield and door windows. Of course this makes your living space smaller too. If you have the time and creativity, hanging a thick blanket over each of the front door and finding a way to create something for the windshield would help a lot and keep the cab area free to use. From my experiences with winter camping, you will also have to deal with condensation inside the van-- being sure to use the bathroom exhaust, and the stove top vent when bathing and cooking is important.

I've often thought about what would be necessary for extended winter camping- an adventure for sure!
Last edited by weekender on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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skater
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by skater »

I agree with everything weekend said, although I'd suggest if you do have a way to hook up a larger tank, call a propane dealer and have them bring you a 100 lb tank or something like that. A small barbecue tank is roughly the same size as the onboard tank, so you'll reduce the hassle when refilling, but not the frequency. Presumably a propane dealer can also install the connection for you.

For the dump valve, we just kept working it, and we might've used a lighter to get some heat near it. Never use a pipe wrench on them - they're just plastic and it's a guaranteed break (and a messy repair). If you're very careful, you might be able to use a torch, but you don't want to melt any of the plastic.

When I had the B190, I carried pretty much everything tool-wise. I stacked my toolboxes in the floor of the driver's seat - it's wasted space anyway. Be sure you don't activate the brake lights by putting something against the pedal. But if I had to go slim, I'd want screwdrivers, a set of standard wrenches, a set of metric wrenches if your van needs them (mine was all standard), a hammer, plumbers tape, an adjustable wrench (I usually recommend against these, but they can be useful in a pinch to serve as a second wrench when you need to hold something still while tightening the bolt), wire cutters, wire strippers, wire crimper, black tape, duct tape, and probably a few things I've forgotten. I'd also get an assortment of washers and o-rings.
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twistedskipper
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Re: Satellite Dish

Post by twistedskipper »

A previous owner put a small 120v wall heater (Fahrenheat FFL Model B) next to the electrical panel beneath the settee in our 1999 unit. It saves a lot propane so long as you're hooked up. The picture might be different if you're paying a lot for metered electricity, but I've never done that.
--
Tim
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skater
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Re: Winter camping

Post by skater »

FYI, I split this out into a new topic.
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TheSeeker
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Re: Winter camping

Post by TheSeeker »

Thanks so much- A lot of more great ideas much appreciated!

A shorter hose for sure, and seeing a propane dealer for a large tank, auxiliary tank and connection. Didn't realize the dump valves are plastic, but suspected. Thanks Skater- know the relief you must have felt when it broke free! and yes, - will use heat tape! And if it still freezes possibly a hair dryer or aiming the Little Buddy at it. Ill have to make sure the wheels are torqued to specs too - too many mechanics just zap them on with an impact wrench much too tight to get the lug nuts free sometimes. No fun in the cold.

For tools, those of Skater's are pretty much the same I’ve put aside in a duffle bag. I don’t have all the wrenches but have a couple of good combo-wrenches, and set of metric and standard sockets, ratchet & extensions. Just need to add washers and o-rings it seems. I’ll probably get rid of the heavy, unwieldy pipe wrench and keep an adjustable locking pliers instead.

Yes, hanging heavy blankets should help a lot too, thanks - the cabin space does seem large. I can cut and sew a blanket to size and install snaps to hang from the top bed neatly and securely.

Bales of hay sound like a great idea too (though my cats will love it if any critters get in). I’lI check if there’s anything below that the critters might like to gnaw at, and put some traps and poison as needed.

Must look into wall heaters too - thanks. I think I’ve seen them sold for bathrooms, and will look for the Fahrenheat FFL Model B . I'd be making a deal with the person where I'm parked for rent, running shore power, and water.
Marko Polo
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Re: Winter camping

Post by Marko Polo »

Heya -

I've spent a few winters high up in the rockies in the B190. No hook-ups. Here's what I can tell you:

I put two 100# propane tanks mounted to a cargo carrier on the hitch. Run a propane line in through the back window to a catalytic heater mounted by the stove. It doesn't produce any off-puts, only burns oxygen (still dangerous) and the ventilation created by leaving one of the back windows cracked is plenty. We'd even close the curtain back there. Use either the furnace or a small fan to circulate the heat. Without furnace, we'd sleep at about 65-70 in the bed, couch level would be 40-50, and dogs bowl would freeze on the floor. Using catalytic and furnace, whole thing would be 65 no problem. Start the van in the morning to charge the battery the furnace used and you're good to go again. Pile some snow around the bottom so air drafts don't get down there.

As far as the tanks go, winterize your water tanks. Pour a few gallons of anti-freeze into the toilet and gray tank, but this is only to prevent a complete freeze. These tanks WILL STILL FREEZE, but the antifreeze prevents them from becoming a block of ice. We used two methods for dumping the tanks:

1) Wait for a warmer day, clear a little space from the snow piled around the skirting and run a little salamander heater. Add a little hot water, and sooner or later you'll get it to thaw and can dump and refill with some antifreeze.

2) It's a great excuse to go somewhere warm every few weeks. Drive south, lower elevation, whatever it takes to find 40's, 50's, 60's. We'd take a week in Moab for every 5-6 weeks in Steamboat Springs.

All-in-all I found the entire situation pleasant. We'd cook, watch movies, read, play cribbage, etc. There's a local hot spring where we'd soak, shower, stretch, etc. Totally necessary to have a gym or somewhere to keep up hygiene. Awesome couple of winters and some GREAT powder days!
Marko Polo
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Re: Winter camping

Post by Marko Polo »

One other thing to note: if you don't have snow tires, these things are a runaway train in the snow. I invested in (4) NICE quick-connect tire chains. Worth every penny. Spend a little extra and get the nice ones as they're easier to put on, and the easier to put on the more you'll do it. I put them on practically every time we moved.
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