No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Electrical issues, both 12 volt and 120 volt
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Sub2RainEN
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No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Hi everyone,

Shortly before I went camping in March, I noticed the monitors and water pump weren’t working. I have mobility issues and my neighbor noticed the propane tank looked a bit old, so I wasn’t going to have propane. Fortunately, I had shore power and my 110 outlet worked, so I was able to cook with my Instant Pot, even boil water to rinse dishes. I could do without running water for 4 nights. Obviously, not long term and I hope to live in the van when all is working.

Last Nov, I had a 160w solar panel installed at the Enigmatic Nomadics Van Build, with two marine batteries that I only recently realized aren’t deep cycle. Someone on Cheap RV Living told me they’re really 57 ah, while they read 135 each. Alas, I bought 3 more before I realized that. My mechanic and I completely misunderstood each other’s camping styles. I assumed he’d know to use marine batteries because he has a trailer, but he assumed I’d be plugged in or using the genny...so he replaced the old batteries with the same kinds automotive starter batteries.

Other than the 12v plug where the TV was, everything seemed to work great then. I’d bought a 3000w inverter, but the electrical engineer who led my install team said it would drain power and my Xantrex 1200 was great (I assumed it would be outdated).

Last night, I tried charging my phone on the 110 and it didn’t work. I originally forgot to plug the bypass into the inverter, but even after I did that and plugged in the inverter, nothing.

I suspected it might be fuses for the monitor and pump, but how can I tell an RV fuse has blown? I’ve had to trip the breaker a couple times at my parents’ house and a few apartments. Don’t think I’ve changed a fuse, but could tell when one needed replacing and had maintenance do it. I used to be generally handy, but definitely no background in electrical. I turned the breakers off and back on, but nothing. Only the house light works and I assume the fans, but forgot to try them.

Even without these issues, I have a few projects I’d like to get done: install 12v & USB outlets on couch, add a 160 W flex panel, add the additional batteries or get AGMs, replace the automotive house batteries, rewire stereo to house batteries (has anyone had an issue with battery drain? Would like to use stereo for a couple hours a day when parked or at drive in, rear speakers work). Hope to get it all done at once.

Also need to get genny fixed because bad gas got into it and probably change propane tank. Honestly, I’d love to get rid of it and get an electric fridge and induction burner. Already have a convection oven. Or install a camp oven that uses small bottles of propane.

First, has anyone had an issue with the monitors or water pump? Was it fuses or something else? I see many inexpensive sets of fuses, any brand reccs/warnings?

Second, I know most people say it’s almost impossible to run a mini-fridge in a van, especially on 110. Yet I see many Skoolies and Sprinters that do, and even a few B190s. If you’ve done it, what’s your solar/battery system like? Given the layout of my van, a cooler-shaped 12v fridge won’t fit, except on tub. They’re also almost as expensive as RV fridges. I’d rather invest in solar and batteries. If I can find someone to do it affordable, I’d love to take the tub out and add storage.


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by skater »

There isn't really a different quality level in automotive fuses that I'm aware of. The original panel in mine had blade-style fuses. Basically you just pull them and look to see if there's a break in the wire in the middle (Picture on this page.)

It's unusual for a fuse to randomly blow, though - it's normally either a sign of too much power being drawn, or a short circuit somewhere. Replace the fuse, but if it blows again, you're going to need to do some diagnosis. Don't put a larger fuse in, either, because that's a good way to have a fire. I'd buy a pack of 20 amp (or whatever size they are) fuses. They're pretty cheap. Some packs of fuses include a little tool that makes it a bit easier to grab them.

I rewired my stereo to the coach power, and I haven't had an issue with battery drain from it - they really don't draw a lot of power. My guess is that you'd use more power on practically anything else.

For the compressor fridge: This one draws 1.3 amps. 1.3 amps times 120 volts = 156 watts when it's running. You have to decide whether that's too much or not. :) (That was the first one I found that had power specifications on the page. I'm not recommending that specific fridge.) For reference, your absorption fridge in electric mode draws something like 360 watts. Also, both of those are probably maximums, the regular draw is probably lower. I'd need to test it with a kill-a-watt meter to know for sure (I should have done that when I was playing with it last summer...oh well). Note both of these are going to incur inverter losses as well - that is, the conversion from 12 volts DC to 120 volt AC is not 100% efficient, so you'll lose some more battery power simply to that conversion.

The other option for fridges are the Danfoss cycle fridges. But they're more expensive. This one (again, just the first in my search) says it draws 6 amps at 12 volts, which is 72 watts, half the power requirement of the dorm fridge. This also doesn't need the inverter, so it saves some electricity that way. (Actually it says it averages 40 watts. That's not bad!)
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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Thanks Skater!

Didn’t realize I hadn’t responded. Summer school tends to take all my time. I did buy the fuses I had in my cart, but haven’t got out to the van to try them. Suspect a headlight fuse also went out in my car (changed both bulbs), or perhaps a short, since the driver side headlight worked for maybe an hour, then went out.

Total newb still. When people talk about the draw from a fridge, or anything else I guess...is that per hour? For example, I wouldn’t use a blender for more than a few minutes, toaster over 15-60 mins, Instant Pot 15-75. Fridge, 24 hours, but then thaw compressor doesn’t need to run all day.


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No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Well, I don’t even know anymore. My power is working both directly from the inverter and through the plugs with inverter on. It wasn’t before, I checked both. Maybe because the engine battery was dead? Pretty sure it didn’t work even before engine died.

Monitors, water pump, and heater switches still don’t work.

Friend added a 160 W panel in parallel to the set up I already had (150 W panel, Renogy Rover 40, Xantrex 1200). I have a third panel, 160W, attached to roof, but didn’t have enough MC4s because we were going to run the two new panels to the back door and use a solar generator (Renogy Lycan). Since power was working, I decided to add to existing system instead.

I’m preparing to leave for a cross country trip next week and trying to get this beast working. Worst case, I have an insanely good cooler I got for free when I bought It’s Its.


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by skater »

Sub2RainEN wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:42 am
Well, I don’t even know anymore. My power is working both directly from the inverter and through the plugs with inverter on. It wasn’t before, I checked both. Maybe because the engine battery was dead? Pretty sure it didn’t work even before engine died.

Monitors, water pump, and heater switches still don’t work.
Do the lights work? What about the fan over the bed? If not, then it sounds like your 12 volt coach system is dead for some reason - possibly a dead battery. If they work, then you have 12 volts, and the problem has to be in the circuit(s) for those items that aren't working. In that case, check fuses.

For the inverter, it depends on how it's wired. Normally those would be wired to the coach battery, so you wouldn't strand yourself by running down the engine battery. Your solar should also be connected to the coach system, because that's the system you want to charge and use. If the inverter were wired to the engine battery, then if that were dead, the inverter wouldn't work, either.
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No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Thanks Skater,

I forgot to mention, yes, the fans and lights work. I think they even worked when the plugs did not. I can’t think of a time they did not.

I checked the fuses a few months back. They looked fine. I tried new fuses, no change.

Bad wiring? I pulled off the monitor panel to see if anything looked loose. Not that I know what they should look like. Dirty as could be, but all the wires seemed to be connected.

Having a Max Air installed today. When I asked them to check the electrical, CW said they check everything as a courtesy. Fingers crossed!


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

CW tech just asked whether I had a battery disconnect switch. Not that I know of. They did what I did: checked fuses, tried other electrical items and outlets.

They can’t figure it out, either.


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by skater »

The heater (water heater, I assume) switch is near the monitor and water pump panel, right? They’re all together on mine. Probably use the same circuit and for whatever reason the wire isn’t getting power - disconnected somewhere or damaged (since fuses appear fine). If you have a multimeter or even test light that works on 12 volts, it would be easy to check.

Ideally you would know what else is on the same circuit so you could trace the wire back. I did an audit of mine years ago, and it’s probably posted here somewhere. In the absence of that information, I’d check the wall with all of the stuff above the fridge and see if all of those things are working.
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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Thanks.

Yes, it’s all by the heater switch. None of that works: water pump, tank monitors, or water heater.

I forgot to check the outlets above the fridge, including the 12 volt. I’ll try those.


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

Still haven’t figured out the electrical issue. The water pump and monitors don’t work, but all other 12V things except the stove fan work.

It was weeks to get RV service appointments. Camping World couldn’t figure it out. They said the polarity on my outlets was reversed. They suggested a van conversion company that was more experienced with automotive electrical and could get right to the problem issue, instead of tearing everything apart.

In other electrical news...

FYI, I removed the rusty propane tank 2 years ago and decided not to replace it. Also removed the propane fridge. My B is all-electric.

I’ve been running a dorm fridge off the original inverter with a 100 aH lithium battery. It worked great at first, but after a month or so we came in to a room temp fridge. I turned the inverter off and back on and it worked. Finally, while we were in the van doing reno, the inverter alarm went off (as it did when my LA batteries used to drain) and it stopped powering the fridge. The battery wasn’t dead, but maybe lower voltage then it should have? (Inverter was remounted upside down during solar install, so it’s hard to read.)

Due to Covid and not being able to use libraries and Starbucks for working and charging devices, I broke down and bought a Yeti 1500x. That’s now my main electrical source and the fridge is now plugged into that. I don’t have solar connected to it. I had planned to put a dedicated panel or two up, and run the wires through the rear doors. Alas, my friend inexplicably centered my second solar panel in the middle of the roof, even after I said I wanted to leave room for a third. I’d have to get very skinny panels to run on either side of or the A/C. For now, the Yeti is still in the 90% range, and I can charge it by plugging it into the inverter.


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Re: No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by skater »

I know inverters will usually shut down if the battery voltage goes below a certain point, I think this is to prevent someone from being stranded when they're using their engine battery. There's not really enough info here to figure out what the problem is - the inverter might have failed, for example. Or it might just be low batteries.

For the 12 volt question: Assuming they meant the 120 volt outlets, that polarity reversal won't have anything to do with the 12 volt issues.

I'm assuming you've checked your fuses and they're good. If you're not getting power to that panel, there has to be a problem with the wiring harness somewhere along the line. The water pump and monitor are above the sink in yours, right? I'm pretty sure they're powered by the same circuit that comes from the wall above the fridge, so I'd pull the panel (from behind it, in the closet) and start looking there for a broken or damaged wire. It might not even be worth the trouble diagnosing it - you could just run a new wire from somewhere convenient back there to the panel. I'm not sure what the physical routing is, though.

For the stove fan, does the hood light work? If so, I'd suspect either the switch or the motor for the fan.
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No electricity to monitor/pump/12V & now 110 outlet & more!

Post by Sub2RainEN »

You’re right, I forgot in the moment that the outlet polarity had nothing to do with the rest. I’m they basically couldn’t figure anything out and didn’t charge me. I haven’t been able to reach any van build companies.

The stove hood light works. The fan used to work, but didn’t when we checked a few weeks ago. I suspect it’s just loose.

I checked the fuses, but it was probably a couple years ago. I’ll check again.

I kept killing batteries, so I replaced the 4 lead acid with a 100 aH lithium. I haven’t seen it below 85%, even with fridge and fan running all the time. But the voltage could have gotten low.


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