Tell me about inverters

[ChasingRain]

So here's the deal- my generator is on the fritz- It would start and run as long as I held the start switch, but as soon as I let off the switch, it would turn off. I took it to a local shop, and they replaced the control board on the generator- now it'll start and run on it's own, but doesn't seem to be outputting any power, and also won't turn off! Basically have to block off the air intake to choke it to death to get it to stop running.

I don't use the genny that much anyway (especially now that it doesn't work, but I'm not a fan of the noise), so I got to thinking- could I use the space the generator is taking up for some more batteries, and add an inverter for 120v power? I almost never use the roof AC or microwave. I might use the microwave a bit if I could power it, but probably not the AC, so that's not a concern.

Does anyone have any experience/advice in this area? What should I look for in an inverter, and how hard is the install? I did a little googling to see what I could find, and most of it made my head start spinning. It seemed like there was a bit too much info out there.

Thanks
Jeremy

[skater]

I don't have personal experience with them, but I think your idea is sound and should work fine (as long as the compartment is tall enough for the batteries, or I guess you could get gel cells and lay them on their sides).

If you can do without the microwave, you'll save yourself a good deal of money in batteries. I think the inverters themselves aren't that expensive, it's the batteries that get you.

Also, keep in mind everything in the camper runs on 12 volt, except the A/C, microwave, and fridge - and you'll want to run the fridge on gas when you're dry camping. I'm not sure what you're planning to run off 120 volts, but remember there are 12 volt televisions, converters for laptops, DVD players, etc. out there - so you may not need 120 volt power at all.

(The fridge does have a 12 volt mode, but that's powered by the alternator only, and it's only good for maintaining temperature; it will not get cold. Also, it draws like 10 amps of 12 volt power, so it'd kill your batteries quickly.)

My first goal would be to see what I can do with the 12 volt realm before sizing an inverter. (For example, I have a 12 volt adapter for my laptop - it doesn't make sense to go 12 volt -> 120 volt -> 16 volts - you lose efficiency every time.)

If you are planning to add batteries, I recommend upgrading the converter as discussed in this thread. A better converter will charge your batteries without damaging them; the original one just dumps 13 volts or whatever into the system and will overcharge the batteries unless you are very careful.

[ChasingRain]

My first goal would be to see what I can do with the 12 volt realm before sizing an inverter. (For example, I have a 12 volt adapter for my laptop - it doesn't make sense to go 12 volt -> 120 volt -> 16 volts - you lose efficiency every time.)

I've tried to optimize things for 12 volt, but keep running into roadblocks. I got a flat panel LCD tv (mounted on the side door just above the counter top- awesome set-up) and when I got it, it was listed as having a 12 volt input (coming out of a converter from house current)- I figured it would be a simple + and - round connection that would plug into the TV, and I could wire it directly into the van. WRONG. It's got like 10 different pins on the plug for the TV. So right now, I'm running it off a plug-in inverter. Same sort of deal with the laptop- I got a Macbook this year, and they don't make an auto adapter for it- and they've got a fancy new patented connection for the power plug, so it doesn't look like anyone else will be making one soon either...

So I'd like to be able to run those, and also chargers for camera batteries, etc. My other thought is that I'd like to be able to dry camp for longer periods without having to recharge- I've already got a solar panel, which helps, but it would be nice to be able to get through a DVD and still have enough juice to run the furnace at night. Maybe I just need more batteries and can keep running things off the plug-in inverter.

[skater]

So I'd like to be able to run those, and also chargers for camera batteries, etc. My other thought is that I'd like to be able to dry camp for longer periods without having to recharge- I've already got a solar panel, which helps, but it would be nice to be able to get through a DVD and still have enough juice to run the furnace at night. Maybe I just need more batteries and can keep running things off the plug-in inverter.

If you're just running an LCD TV and a Macbook, I think you could come up with the battery power to run those for a while without too much trouble. Neither of those should draw too much power, and battery chargers and the like shouldn't draw much either.

Just guessing, I think you could fit at least four batteries in the generator compartment, maybe more if you can stand them upright. (Check out Optima's website for dimensions and capacities of their deep cycle batteries - those are gel batteries and can be placed on their sides. I think their website also has information about determining the capacity you need.)

[ChasingRain]

I can usually get through a DVD on the TV one battery, but there's not much left. My current thought is that I'd like to get the genny fixed, and try and add a second battery somewhere else... but I'm on the road for a few months, so it'll all have to wait anyway

[Alaskan]

CR.....

Lets try something here with your generator:

Open the side door to the gen compartment and remove the black side-cover on the generator...

There you'll find a Start-Stop switch for the generator.....see if that works to both start and stop the generator...

Next, with that cover off look down below the Start-Stop switch and on the right-hand end of that little box you'll see (1) circuit breaker (2) 5 amp fuse, neither of which are easy to get to....

Make sure the breaker is in the On position and the fuse is good....both these will prevent the generator from producing output voltage...

Note where it says "AC Circuit Breaker with the arrow...that breaker switch is around the corner on the end of that little control box




NOTE...the 5amp fuse and also a white breaker switch on the end of the control box..

[ChasingRain]

The start/stop switch will start it but won't stop it. The only way I've found to turn it off it to take out the air filter and plug the air intake until it stops
I'll have to double check the circuit breaker/fuse

[Alaskan]

Gotta be a faulty Start/Stop switch...or a wire disconnected inside that box that grounds the system to kill the engine...

problem with plugging off the air like you're doing is that is loads the oil up with gasoline...

[ChasingRain]

Mine doesn't seem to have the fuse, and circuit breaker was on... I think I need "professional help"

[Alaskan]

Its one of those flat fuses...in the picture above you'll see its kinda orange in color...gotta be there as they didn't make a 2800 w/o that

[skater]

My old generator was different - there were two glass fuses on that panel, not a blade fuse. (Well, they were under screw-top caps, but it was pretty obvious what they were.)

Not sure what the new one is like...I should take a look...

[ChasingRain]

There's really no obvious fuse on mine- and no non-obvious fuse that's obvious enough that I can find it. The circuit breaker is labeled and obvious, but no sign of any sort of fuse.

It makes me wonder if, during my previous attempt to get it fixed, if they replaced the control board with the wrong part... could explain things. Both the switch on the genny and the remote switch will start it, but neither will stop it, and I'm still not getting any power.

Professional help is sounding better and better....

[skater]

Professional help is sounding better and better....

It's expensive. What year is your camper (and thus generator)?

I had two shops look at mine, and they both told me that they'd done everything they could without removing it. They said that the problem could be one of several things and could be upwards of $1000 to repair - and I'd still have 16-year-old parts in the rest of it. At a cost of $2000 new, I decided that springing for a new one, with a 3 year warranty, and better peace of mind was the right way to go. (Unfortunately my transmission died just a couple weeks later...that was a very expensive summer for my camper.)

Of course your situation may be different, but as I recall it would be 3 hours to remove and reinstall the generator, and at their labor rates, the repair bill added up very quickly. Both shops that looked at it said that replacing it was probably the way to go due to the cost of pulling it, diagnosing it, and then the likely cost of repairing it, and because then I'd still have plenty of other old parts in it that could fail.

So, if you do have it looked at again, be sure you're clear on what you want done, how far you want them to go, etc. You can have a new one installed for $2200 (I think that's what it was), if you choose to go that route. I guess I'm just saying, "Pick an upper limit on what you want to spend for any option."

[Alaskan]

The older Onan Microlite 2800 did have a pair of the glass fuses.... one is related to cranking and the other is related to running....

These gen sets are very easy to remove.....drop the exhaust pipe, remove the 2 bolts that hold the gen down to the floor of the compartment and simply slide the unit straight out onto a stacked pair of milk crates (don't we all have some of those).....

Once slid out you simply disconnect the fuel hose, one wiring plug, one positive starter cable and the 110 volt wires from the little box....all can be done in a half hour.....all the wiring and hoses are long enough to slide the unit out.

Nationwide, Onan service is done by Cummins as they are the same company...I suggest you take the unit out of the rig and take it nowhere but Onan for repairs.

These gen sets are very easy to work on...I've been into several of them, most problems are related to the carb or the governor, had one that the brackets on the muffler were broke loose....simple repair

One important thing with these little gen sets is its important to run them for a few minutes regularly...

They will run well for 100's & 100"s of hours with regular oil changes as long as you don't let them sit for long periods of time without running them....once the carb varnishes up its a nighmare to get them back working well, not to mention the the carb is not re-buildable, its a throw-away @ $200

Oil = .95QT 10w-30
Aircleaner= Onan 140-2105
Fuel filter= Onan 149-2137

(no oil filter on the Onan 2800 Microlite)

[ChasingRain]

I've actually pulled it most of the way out (short of disconnecting the fuel lines, etc) myself trying to see if there was anything I could do. Wasn't really much of a hassle. and I was surprised how easily it went back in too.

The genset runs great, other than the two problems I mentioned, both of which I suspect are related to the control board.

I'm with you on taking it on an Onan service dealer.