Plan to Purchase 1991 B-190 174.000 mi...questions?

[LarryMarty]

I'm new to the board...but from what I've read, the 460 motor with 174.000 (providing it's received regular service and used on road miles)...should be good for many more miles. Any info or experience on that?

The inside is beautiful. Seems hardly used, and looks new.

The generator (original onan) wouldn't start because of a low battery (apparently separate from the motor battery)..so I'm concerned that it's not be used regularly and understand this could be a problem. The owner did say, that to use the microwave...that the air condition would have to be turned offwhen the generator is on .

Replaced: shocks, tires, brakes., transmission (by ford)..

When the air is own, water leaks over the side a lot. Is that normal or is a drain clogged or something like that?

Dash air: .. is the 1993 the old freon unit?

Thanks ahead of time for answers...as I plan to buy this vehicle if all goes well.

11.000 ... price being asked ...

If I have the motor checked...what should I ask the mechanic?

[skater]

I'm new to the board...but from what I've read, the 460 motor with 174.000 (providing it's received regular service and used on road miles)...should be good for many more miles. Any info or experience on that?

The 460 does have a very good reputation. If you look on FTE.com (Ford Truck Enthusiasts), you'll find people using ones from the 70s without problems. Obviously things do fail; I've had to replace my water pump, for example, but overall I think they're a great engine. I love listening to mine run.

The generator (original onan) wouldn't start because of a low battery (apparently separate from the motor battery)..so I'm concerned that it's not be used regularly and understand this could be a problem. The owner did say, that to use the microwave...that the air condition would have to be turned offwhen the generator is on .

You are correct; there are two batteries under the hood. One is for the engine and the other is for the camper. The camper battery should be a deep cycle version and if it isn't used it'll lose some charge over time. I wouldn't say that implies the generator wasn't used much, though.

You should be able to start the generator by starting the engine then trying to start the generator. When the engine is running, there is a selenoid under the hood (you may be able to hear it click when you turn the ignition to "run" before you start it) that connects the vehicle and camper's 12 volt systems - so even if the camper battery is dead, as long as the engine is running, you should be able to use all 12 volt appliances and start the generator.

The microwave and air conditioner are on a switch so that you can only run one at a time.

replaced: shocks, tires, brakes., transmission (by ford)..

A new transmission is good - the E4OD is a good transmission for the job, until it fails (and I think they pretty much all do). I had to replace mine last year, though I put a Jasper remanufactured one in.

When the air is own, water leaks over the side a lot. Is that normal or is a drain clogged or something like that?

The air conditioner does leak water over the sides - mine does the same thing. It's kind of annoying, actually. Depending on how its level the exact drip location will vary.

Dash air: .. is the 1993 the old freon unit?

Dash air in 1993 would have Freon (R-12), not R-134a.

11.000 ... price being asked ...

$11,000 sounds good to me, since the transmission has been replaced and the interior is in good shape.

If I have the motor checked...what should I ask the mechanic?

I don't know of anything to check other than the usual engine checklist. My engine has been very reliable, never giving me any cause for concern. Still, consider replacing the cap, rotor, spark plugs, wires, PCV, fuel filter, belts, etc. if any of them haven't been done or look questionable.

[LarryMarty]

Skater.....wow.....thanks for the information....it's so valuable to me.

To note one thing you said:
I did start and drive the B-190...and tried to start the generator with the engine running, and it didn't start.....so I was unaware that it should switch over to the 12v after started.

When I drove it, I also notice the sway....whew....I'm sure I'll get used to it, but was suprised. I heard there was somekind of anti sway after market bar you could use. Maybe that is for towning. I read it on another blog somewhere. Do you know about this.

After I make my purchase, I'm sure I'll have more question.

BTW...I live in Orlando, Fl.

[skater]

Skater.....wow.....thanks for the information....it's so valuable to me.

To note one thing you said:
I did start and drive the B-190...and tried to start the generator with the engine running, and it didn't start.....so I was unaware that it should switch over to the 12v after started.

When I drove it, I also notice the sway....whew....I'm sure I'll get used to it, but was suprised. I heard there was somekind of anti sway after market bar you could use. Maybe that is for towning. I read it on another blog somewhere. Do you know about this.

After I make my purchase, I'm sure I'll have more question.

BTW...I live in Orlando, Fl.

If the generator didn't start then I would suspect issues with it. Not surprising considering the age.

It shouldn't be swaying too much. Certainly it's not as tight as a sports car, but it shouldn't be all over the lane, either. Check the air in the tires (51 PSI front, 80 PSI rear). Since the shocks and all were replaced I would consider getting the anti-sway bar - it's not really a towing thing, just a stability thing. You may also have a problem with the steering - might want to get that checked when you take it to the mechanic. Also if you happened to test drive it during a strong crosswind, that'll make it feel worse than it normally would, too.

Of course different people are going to have different standards for how the vehicle feels. When I first drove mine I felt like it was all over the road, but after a couple hundred miles I got used to it and feel a lot better.

[Eagle]

LarryMarty:

You are going to be very happy with that rig. I have a 1990 and me being the third owner with over 200,000 miles on the engine. When I purchashed it I was given all the service records, including times when repairs were made. I have it serviced regularly and that is the key to keeping it running properly.

Yes, water does come over the side of the van especially during humid weather. When I open the door to step out I will get a shower

I have not noticed any sway when driving. In fact when a truck passes there is very little sway. I recently had the front ball joints replaced along with placement of gas shocks. That made a big difference in the handling.

This is not a fish tale, but I have gotten between 12 and 15 mile per gallon.

Have fun and enjoy the rig. You can go places that a larger rig could not even think of going.

[Alaskan]

Those generators can be difficult to start if they haven't been run in some time...!

They have a very small carb and when fuel sets in it for quite some time it will varnish up and that a real problem. Onan doesn't make a kit for the carb as they say its a throw-away carb at only $300....not to mention the job of sliding the gen out and removing the cover to get at the carb...been ther done that once...about a half-days work.

Don't crank on the gen too long...it seems that the choke works better giving the gen short bursts of the starter..

Next...the way its set up the gen will run out of fuel prior to draining the fuel tank...thats a good thing, but it also means that when the fuel tanks gets below a quarter the gen is close to running out of fuel, keep that in mind.

Don't allow someone thats NOT familiar with the 2800 Onan gen work on it...save yourself a lotta trouble and take it to a Cummins (Onan) dealer.

[LarryMarty]

Thank you to all of you with all the valuable info you are giving me on the 1993 I am going to purchase.

I told my concerns to the owner, and she is going to replace the battery, put enough fuel in the tank to run the generator, (it was below a 1/4 of a tank)...and I am going to have the motor checked out.

BTW...She is dropping the price 1000 if I should decide to buy it. Wow!!! ...

As far as the body is concerned....it's solid, no dents, but some of the trim-spripes are worn a peeling back a little. I wonder if I could just take them off........and a couple of the rubber seals are pulling away from the windows.....it's like they have shrunk (I guess because of the heat)

I am sure I'll have some questions after I get it....but I am very excited, and of course I will want to get it in tip top condition and know how to keep it in good shape.

At 174000 mile, I suppose I should consider using the synthetic oil? What do you think?

Thanks again everyone.

[craigmar]

I don't know about others but I personally would not change over to a synthetic in an older vehicle. I did it one time and had to replace the engine as the synthetic loosened and I guess cleaned all the carbon up to such a point that the engine started blowing smoke from loose rings and whatever else. I changed oil religiously and never had a problem and then just before a planned vacation was talked into a synthetic oil change. Upon reaching Utah from Michigan the car started blowing oil smoke and to the extent that you would have thought I was laying down a smokescreen for a special op's team. Nothing changed in preparation except for the oil change. I had to replace the engine which was cheaper for me than a new vehicle and have never given synthetic another thought. The mechanic I dealt with also thought the oil was the reason for the problem but, who knows, maybe there was a bigger problem just waiting to happen and chose to show itself at the time.

[LarryMarty]

Craigmar........thanks!!!.........
I had heard not to use synthetic on high miles........so this just confirms it.

May I ask how much a motor costs and was it used? Did you think of having the motor rebuilt? .. I also wonder how much that would cost.

I am getting my 1993 B-190 tomorrow...... I am so excited.

To you and everyone else.... there are a few more questions I have.

The running board on the passenger side (entering the double doors) sags a bit when I step on it to enter. Has anyone experienced this? Does it just need to be tightened or is there a problem?

It has one of those sensor fans in the ceiling... when I turn it on....you can hear the motor trying to open the top.....but it doesn't open....and the fan doesn't run.

I also can't open the fan in the bathroom. It looks broken. Are they easily replaced?

...and I wanted to mention that the dash air works fine.....but sooner or later I will have to have it changed over to the new ac coolant..... Is that costly, and should I do it before I actually need to? ... and I would love the dash to blow harder. I wonder if it is possible to install a larger blower. I have thought about putting a curtain or something behind the seats so to not lose the cool of the dash air when driving.

All of you are so great to answer my questions...maybe I'll be able to help someone else some time.

Larry marty in Orlando Fl .....

[skater]

I switched mine over to synthetic at over 110,000 miles, no problem. Switched my Cougar at 80,000 miles, no problem. Switched the Impala at 30,000 miles, no problem. Personally, I think the stories about synthetics and higher mileage engines are a myth - the engine fails, and people want to find something to blame, but as craigmar said, the engine might have failed anyway.

Personally, I would have the motor rebuilt if it needed it. I would put in an "RV cam" and whatever else I could to get lots more low end torque. Our engines are good, but they could be a lot better.

For the Fantastic Fan, some of them have a switch to disconnect the motor so you can open/close it manually - is that switch set correctly? (Mine doesn't have the motorized hood so I can't describe it any better than that.)

For the one in the bathroom, that's strange - it should just push up. I wonder how it could break to prevent that. I think it's like replacing anything else in the roof, though - the hard part is cleaning off the old roofing sealer and putting a good coat of new sealer on.

I wouldn't touch the dash air until something goes wrong with it. The R-12 in it isn't damaging the environment (that only happens when it escapes), and switching to R-134a will reduce the effectiveness of the system, because R-134a can't cool as well (the reason car air conditioners that use R-134a from the factory work just as well as R-12 systems is because the manufacturers made the systems larger to compensate for the difference). I've never heard of anyone putting in a larger blower; instead, I would consider getting some of those 12-volt clip on fans.

Not sure about the running board - I noticed mine flexes a tiny bit but not enough to worry me. I'd just take a look underneath and see what you can see. You might find that the fiberglass is cracked or something (don't panic, fiberglass is pretty easy to repair).

[LarryMarty]

I'm going to get my 1993 B-190 in about an hour......yea!

Skater...thanks for that synthetic oil info....
I switched my car at 50.000 ... and the only change I noticed, I have to ad about 2 quarts before my 3000 miles are up...and it's not leaking. The mechanic really didn't have an answer for that, and charged me for another quart.

Well, based on what you said, I think will consider it. Being 174.000 miles......I want to do whatever it takes to give me many more miles.

oh ...and the idea you had about a 12v fan......how simple of a solution! Thx...... but sad to hear the new stuff doesn't cool as well as the previous. I hope not to have that problem for a while. I ((assume)) you can't get the old R-12? ... probably illegal.

I'll check those fans out with a little more detail.....see what is going on.

I've been looking for a check list on the site of maintenance.....but the book will likely have that, and also...since I haven't traveled much....I wonder what kind of accesories...like things to drive on to level the coach, the type of hose, how to keep the drinking water fresh..how to flush it. After I read the manual (which comes with this sale)...then I'll come back with some questions.

Thanks for this site... how wonderful it is.

[Roadhog]

The Fantastic Fan (I assume you have) can develop several problems. If the motor runs but will not open the vent it can be two problems. If the vent has been closed for a long time, the gasket seal becomes sticky and the motor is not powerful enough to overcome the bond and it times out preventing damage to the motor. 2. I have had the cam rail attached to the plastic cover break loose and the motor just runs without opening the cover. The newer models have a manual override which you may not have. If the seal is sticking, remove the screen inside and place a dowel or rod of some kind through the fan blades and push up at the same time you turn the unit on to assist the motor. Once the seal is broken remove the rod and the unit should continue to fully open. Once the unit is open get access from the top and clean the gasket and treat it with silicone or vasoline. NEVER GET ON THE ROOF. NOT DESIGNED FOR THE WEIGHT. If the cover cam is broken you can call and get a new one. The FANTASTIC FAN company is the best outfit I have ever dealt with. Call them at (800) 521-0298 and talk with Bob (I think). Any of them are good and know their product . Talk with them they can put you onto your problem if its not what I have mentioned. I have gotten most items FREE of charge. They stand behind their products. Howard

[Roadhog]

As far as your dash air is concerned, you can convert from an R 12 system to an R 134a system. I had my car switched over several years ago and it works great. You can buy the kit to do it for about $35, but don't do it yourself , because the system needs to be evacuated and tested for leaks. I had a local auto shop do it all for $85. If its working now I wouldn't fix it as thy say. Howard

[skater]

I've been looking for a check list on the site of maintenance.....but the book will likely have that, and also...since I haven't traveled much....I wonder what kind of accesories...like things to drive on to level the coach, the type of hose, how to keep the drinking water fresh..how to flush it. After I read the manual (which comes with this sale)...then I'll come back with some questions.

There are some excellent suggestions in that paragraph for the site! Thanks!

I bought a set or two of "leveler blocks" - they're bright yellow and look like giant Legos. About $30 for 10 of them, which is more than I need most of the time. I figured they'd last about one season, but I've had them two years now and no problems so far. I'm not terribly fond of them, but they do work and I haven't seen anything else that really tickles me, either.

Water hose - get a white one. 15 feet will be enough most of the time, but occasionally you may need more.

To flush the water system you're supposed to dump a bit of chlorine bleach in the tank with lots of water and run it through, then flush with fresh water. I think you're supposed to do this annually. I don't worry about it too much because I don't use the water system for drinking water - I buy bottled (I like it refrigerated anyway). I should be more careful with it, though.

For sewer hoses, if you need a new one, they have some pretty nice systems available. The one I have has slip-fit connections and works pretty well. Only downside is that the hoses don't fit in the built-in hose storage so I cram it into the spot where the cord goes. I have two 10' sections, but usually only need one.

Oooh...yeah, I'll start on a list right now, and we can add to it as we think of new things. List is here. Please let me know (preferably by private message) what I've missed.

[Roadhog]

As far as your bathroom vent is concerned several problems have happened 4to me over the years. The unit as installed on B vans are VENTLINE. 1.)The cover can develop cracks. 2.) The fan blade fins, being plastic, deteriorate and break off resulting zero air flow. 2.) The outside cover is prone to cracking with age. 3.) The motor can develop a squall. All of these problems can be fixed. The cover is about $15. The plastic fan is about $10. and the motor is about $30. A whole new unit can be bought for about $65 to $70. Generally if you fix one item on an old fan something else will go bad. If the motor is bad I would opt for the new unit.
Howard